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 Post subject: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:41 am 
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Quote:
    10-Man and 25-Man raids will share the same lockout.
    10-Man and 25-Man raids difficulty will be as close as possible to each other.
    10-Man and 25-Man raids will drop the exact same loot, but 25-man will drop a higher quantity of items.
    Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel
    For the first few raid tiers, our plan is to provide multiple smaller raids. Instead of one raid with eleven bosses, you might have a five-boss raid as well as a six-boss raid.



Source :
http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/cataclysm-raid-progression-refinements-193787/

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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:55 am 
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Good change but it kills PUGing for a lot of people.

What it DOES do now is means less raid days (no more 10s' AND 25s) so we can focus on 25s for Cata (which seems to be the best option from reading all that)

Again only big hubbub of an issue is that there's no more PUGing 10's when we're not raiding

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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Low wrote:
Good change but it kills PUGing for a lot of people.

What it DOES do now is means less raid days (no more 10s' AND 25s) so we can focus on 25s for Cata (which seems to be the best option from reading all that)

Again only big hubbub of an issue is that there's no more PUGing 10's when we're not raiding



My biggest question is... do you get more than double the loot in 25s ?

Why would you ever run 1 25 instead of 2 10s if not ?

for example :


For double in 25 (average 2 and 4 drops per boss in their small 5 boss raid)

20 items per raid. for 20 people.
Vs
20 items per raid for 25 people.

2x10 is clearly a winner... you gear out 20 people faster too.


Now... this makes another big issue.. it makes even More strain on healers and tanks.

its the same issue we have now... 4 tanks vs 3 tanks (for 2x10 vs 1x25)

I understand that you get more badges... but badges only last a short time until you get all the badge gear you want... unless they make them BoA.


Some other comments I have seen have some thoughts about guild rank/leveling experience. If this gives some significant bonus/carrot.. that might give enough reason to do 25s over 10s.

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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Great for casuals
Terrible for elitist

Which is DoM again? =)


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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Rednights wrote:
Great for casuals
Terrible for elitist

Which is DoM again? =)



1 year ago I would have been an instant "WOOT" from me.. but after recruiting up enough for 25.. I have mixed feelings on this subject. It really depends on whether or not they have something worth "guild leveling" for .. and if you get more XP for 25s... and if the loot per boss is more than double 10s... otherwise.. . 2X10 is better...

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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:34 pm 
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I think you can only get the badges in 25s not 10's so yea you don't get the instantaneous loot, but I mean, we grind badges now and get the best upgrades from it sometimes; look at the loot we DE nowadays because we're already in tier from Frost Badges.

After recruiting I'd like more than anything to do 25s for breathing room; we have a lot of healers, we have offspec people who either want to heal or DPS. I dig the flexibility of it.

Personally I wonder if we should run two 25's >.>

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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:06 pm 
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I sorta like these changes. I must admit, it does get sorta boring killing the same bosses twice every week. For people who prefer 10 mans over 25s it's kinda cool, cause you don't have to be worried about your gear sucking compared to those who get to run 25s.

Plus, progressing in 10 man's is easier, and if we get the same loot thats great.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Sectumsempra wrote:
Plus, progressing in 10 man's is easier, and if we get the same loot thats great.


Can't really say that in your 264 gear in 10 mans ... =0


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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:25 pm 
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Quote:
Can't really say that in your 264 gear in 10 mans ... =0


Well, mainly what i was thinkin of there was that certain fight mechanics are easier.....i.e. getting spread out when blood queen goes up in the air. More room for 10 people, less people d/cing and what not. Plus, anyone can buy 264 gear..it just takes time.


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 Post subject: Re: Major Changes to Raids in Cataclysm
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:30 am 
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10s are not always easier. It depends on the fight.

10s have less room for error in come cases.

If you lose 1 healer in 10s.. you lose usually between 33-50% of your healers... more like <20% in 25s.

If you lose 1 DPS in 10s, you lose 20+ percent of your DPS (depending on who you lose too).

You can clearly see which fights are easier in 10 Vs 25 for ICC from the graphs on worldoflogs. -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/zones/Icecrown_Citadel/

I have no doubt that they will not be able to make fights equally balanced in 10 vs 25. BQ is extra painful for 25 because of more stuff to coordinate + less space to work in.

Unless they dynamically shrink/grow rooms/zones.. it will always be the case.

It all goes back to the guild XP vs Badges vs amount of drops in 2x10 vs 1x25 imo.

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